Two trains enter a siding? Signalling or scenario issue (or both)

[Nobkins]

Is it possible?

I am working on some guides for the JustTrain colour light signals. I wonder. With any signals is it possible to have 2 trains enter a siding one after the other? I have tried it with Kuju signals and JT's and can't get the scenario to work. The 2nd train just says unable to reach destination because the 1st train is in the way.

Here is what I have tested.
A main line with a track off that splits into two sidings.

Kuju signals. Two trains with separated by an auto signal. The signal controlling entry into the yard is a 2T 1E. the last link (the yard entry link) is assigned to the yard just after the split from the main line and before the sidings splits into to two separate sidings. When doing this the 2nd train can not find a path into the siding.

JT same setup different signal name. Same effect happens.

If I use freeroam and have AI drive the 1st train in. I drive the 2nd train which has no defined instructions then it works as expected with JT's signals. Not tested with Kuju. So the signals are happy that the yard area is not blocked by the train that just entered. However if I add an instruction to the 2nd train the scenario fails because there is no path.

Only work around is to use a 3T 2E (or JT equivalent) and place a link on each of the 2 sidings. This works providing the 1st train goes into siding A and the second train goes into siding B. If you try to put two trains into the same siding it fails again.

I thought because yard entry links forgot about trains as soon as they passed you would be able to send as many trains as you wished in. However, that appears not to be the case.

Anybody ever managed this without having lots of links for each siding? I don't think it is an issue with the signals or the scenario but with how the game decides if a scenario is "valid" or not. It does not seem to correctly understand the signal blocks.

A possible work around might be to have a fake signal that can split a siding into multiple sections. The signal is always green so you never get a spad. The advantage would be that as far as the scenario was concerned the siding would contain multiple signal blocks and so multiple trains could enter.

Jim

[AndiS]

It's exactly as you say. You need the "invisible AI only signal" I posted here.

Signals have nothing to do with the issue, other than providing the block separation point via their link 0.

So the solution is to place a generous amount of these invisible block signals along permissive lines. The dispatcher will admit you just so far that you still have one signal between you and the next train ahead.

Of course, your destination marker must not extend beyond that block signal that matters for the dispatcher.

In practice, the number of such signals placed will be reduced by the fact that the dispatcher does not like destinations where the train does not fit in (does it?). So each marker should extend over a full train length. Between them, you put the invisible signals.

Yard entry links are a failure in this context, too. They clear the signal but the dispatcher does not forget about the train. He does forget about "unmanned" consists, though, so you get all the trouble with no benefit in return.

[Carinthia]

To have more than one train in a yard, on separate roads, you can use the "WH Dummy Yard Signal" that comes with the Woodhead route.

Place the signal (which is just a tuft of grass) at the outlet point of each siding, just like a physcial shunt signal, and it will treat each siding as a separate signal section.

I think that will do what you are asking?

John

[Nobkins]

Thanks John and Andi,

I have created with the help of Andi my own Dummy AI signal. It has proved very useful in getting complex scenarios working the way I want.

Jim

[Nobkins]

Quick demonstration of how useful the AI Only Signal asset can be.
http://www.youtube.com/v/-4c_-K8yzGM

[newbouy]

Jim i was going to make a dummy yard signal myself but seen as thou you already made one will you be making it available as a freeware download so users can use it ? It would mean i dont have to use the Woodhead one all the time which means less DLC requirements for the scenario.Just one thing to note about the Woodhead dummy yard signal Jim is that its texture goes invisable in the winter season otherwise you would easily see it.

Thanks Newbouy

[Nobkins]

Yes no problem.

I can send you the source over so you can export it yourself. Do you want the blender object also?

I have also made my own stopping point marker. Does exactly what the Kuju one does but rather than a headlight asset (which is what the kuju stopping point marker users) it has a nice "stop" board.

If you are willing to put them in a custom / your own dev folder and export them / package them then that would be great.

You could upload them with your scenarios then. You could also upload a separate package containing just the assets for people to use.

If you don't mind doing that (save me a job) that would be great.

Not fussed about crediting me or anything. If you are happy to use them and make them available to others however you see fit that is fine by me.

Let me know and I will send them over via email or whatever method you prefer.

BTW I have not tested them in winter textures. I see no reason why mine should go invisible but you never know!

Cheers

Jim

[Nobkins]

Now here is something good. In the video above you see I have to press TAB to enter the platform. What about a TAB Trigger. It will send the "TAB" message for you and also can be configured to only trigger the message on the 1st, 3rd, 6th train rather than all trains if desired.

I'll have a play and show a video. The TAB trigger is part of the JustTrains signals (I working with JT and the developer of the signals) so I can't give it away I am afraid but still an interesting idea that others might be able to simulate in their own scripts.

I'll try to get a video up later today.

Jim

[newbouy]

Forget what i mentioned above about the invisable winter texture now ive watched your YouTube video i can see your model is always invisable while in the game where as the DTG Woodhead dummy yard signal is not ,it displays as a small shrub.I would glady package these assets up for you Jim they will be of great benefit to all scenario writers ,might even do a small manual to go with them.Ive not used Blender but it looks very promising so really i would only need the exported .igs files ,scripts and blueprints.The TAB Trigger sounds like it could be very useful too Jim nice to have the signals already cleared without having to remember to TAB them.Just one thing ive noticed while using these dummy signals Jim is that if your not carefull and insert them within the route links of the preceeding signals they can cause the game to crash.While in the scenario editor i always hit the space bar until it displays signal route links so you can see where best to place them.I will message you my email address soon Jim.
Thanks Newbouy

[Nobkins]

I think I have your email addy somewhere already.

I'll try to get it zipped up tonight.

Here is the TAB trigger in action:
http://www.youtube.com/v/sQcBNzOfmgo

Big thank you to Schuster (TSD Username) for donating the script.

Jim