AI red signals at Carlisle

AI red signals at Carlisle

Postby RobertM » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:17 pm

Having abit of trouble with a scenario I am making for WCMLS and was hoping someone could help.

I have set it so that I drive from Kingsmoor Yd down into Carlisle and have stopped on one of the middle through lines (line C), and have a 35 minuet wait. (But coming this way has meant that I have had to change the track rule for the scenario so that the DOWN line immediatly north of the station is Bi-directional.)

During that time there are about 10 trains running around, including 3 that are over taking me via platform 4. Problem is that the starter for Platform 4 doesn't clear (CE304). The AI trains all pass through the signal and there is no error in the scenario editor and I can't TAB past my signal (CE297) until the 3rd train has cleared the section as intended/wanted.

The AI's are set to what I believe the correct types, all 3 being Express Passengers and my train being High Speed Freight.

What could be the issue folks?

Robert
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Re: AI red signals at Carlisle

Postby Carinthia » Tue May 12, 2015 8:56 am

Hi Robert,

Not so much an issue but a way that TS seems to work. It isn't uncommon for signals to not clear for AI trains. My suspicions are that signals are the lowest priority for resources, so when the simulator is busy they haven't cleared by the time a train has moved passed them.

My evidence for this theory is . . . . none!

Best regards,

John
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Re: AI red signals at Carlisle

Postby Widewanderer » Wed May 13, 2015 6:29 pm

Good evening Robert - actually Good Morning from me, holed up here in Western Canada -

I think I may have a solution for you, for your CE304 signal problem at Carlisle - at least something worth trying...

Background

A while ago Jim demonstrated on YouTube a little device which was supposed to have been part of the Just Trains Modern Signals set, included with their Newcastle-Edinburgh route:

http://www.youtube.com/v/sQcBNzOfmgo

This little device was intended to simulate the pressing of the TAB key automatically in a scenario, either for an AI train, or the user train, without the need to actually press the physical key on the keyboard. The script read a comma separated variable list from this TAB TRIGGER "signal's" settings fly-out box in the Editor, allowing specified trains running over the "signal's" Link 0 seemingly to activate the TAB function without the key on the keyboard actually being pressed, thereby allowing, for example, calling on lights to be displayed for AI trains in shunt moves.

Alas, this tremendous little device ended up being omitted from the JTMS signal set (according to correspondence with JT) because the developers "deemed it to be unnecessary". Despite my protests to JT, it remains unpublished. A shame.
[UPDATE: JT's TAB Trigger is now included in the Newcastle-Ediburgh route. v1.03. A triumph! Thanks JT!]

Another little piece of background - I have seen the very same problem you are describing in one of the AP scenarios (for Settle-Carlise) included with the RailRight Class 40 pack: A Class 87 brings in a train to platform 4 at Carlisle, chops off and disappears into a headshunt somewhere, leaving the Class 40 (waiting on the adjacent middle road) to pull forward to hook on. The 87 duly marches out of platform 4 through a red signal!

The Solution

With the kind help of AndiS's unfathomable knowledge about signal scripting, we came up with half a dozen lines of (surprisingly simple) lua code, which does pretty much the same thing as the elusive JT "TAB TRIGGER". Our code (which AndiS has kindly posted in his "Bits and Pieces about signals and AI" thread (viewtopic.php?p=4198#p4198), when the train - AI or player - passes over the link 0, checks whether the signal is already clear (in which case the script does precisely NOTHING), or set to DANGER (in which case calling-on lights will be illuminated if appropriate). In tests, a side effect of this code is also, apparently, to CLEAR a main aspect to a less restrictive condition if it is possible to do so and a permissive move is not needed. My tests are on-going, but early indications are very promising...

I have cobbled together a little asset of my own, using AndiS's script, and have successfully deployed it in the afore-mentioned AP scenario: The asset is placed in the scenario, with the link 0 pointing in the direction of travel just ahead of where the Class 87 stops. When the loco moves forward, the TAB is triggered and CE304 clears to the correct yellow aspect. It's not perfect (ie with the train needing to move to clear the signal), but it is a darned sight better than seeing an AI train marching through a RED signal...!

Another little note: For player trains, I use this little trigger device to clear calling-on signals in scenarios without having to press the physical key (for example, running round the Teigngrace logs at Newton Abbot on the RIviera Line, before running up to Heathfield), which gives me a calling-on aspect back onto the train WITHOUT that nasty "SPAD - passing signal at danger approved" message appearing on-screen; thus the immersion of the scenario is very much improved :o

Robert, feel free to PM me with a regular email address, and I can send you the files for my little asset. AndiS has already published the code on this forum, so (with his permission) I am confident that there is no problem there. The only other asset I have used is an old Kuju signal post (without its head) to mark where, in a scenario, I have placed my TAB Trigger.

Hope this all helps.

With best wishes,
Last edited by Widewanderer on Thu May 28, 2015 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rob :-D

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Re: AI red signals at Carlisle

Postby Nobkins » Wed May 27, 2015 7:02 pm

Widewanderer wrote:Alas, this tremendous little device ended up being omitted from the JTMS signal set (according to correspondence with JT) because the developers "deemed it to be unnecessary". Despite my protests to JT, it remains unpublished. A shame.


I believe in a recent update to the NtoE route that all missing items are now part of the download. If you own the NtoE route just re-download from your JT account and re-install.

I did a little check and I think the tab trigger is in there. If I am wrong please let me know.

Or of course use the AndiS variant as Rob describes. Good post Rob.

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Re: AI red signals at Carlisle

Postby Widewanderer » Thu May 28, 2015 12:26 pm

Spot on, Jim -

Those little assets are definitely there now. Excellent news. And for me, they are already proving really useful in solving scenario problems and adding that little bit of extra realism from a signalling point of view. We now have a choice of tools - and as far as I can see, all work pretty well.

Many thanks to the NtoE developers and to Just Trains for letting us have access to these powerful little scenario devices. All that remains for me to do here is to encourage developers to use them in new scenarios :D

Best wishes as always,
Rob :-D

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