Platform Halt advice

Platform Halt advice

Postby Auscgu » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:38 am

Venturing into a bigger project and would like so advice and how to tackle the Platform Halt
I am still new to the Blender Train Simulator process and have created the cube as my first project
The moved onto some signs with raised letters
Having achieved the basic process now for bigger projects
Alphington Halt.jpg

Ide Halt.jpg

The Timber Platform Halt was a common sight and my next project
This may be way to advanced for my current skills but you have to try
I am happy to step back to a simple building to get the skills

I find Blender difficult to master the pixel to dimension process
I have the dimension option on but find this is not always correct
Using planes of known sizes you can trace to resolve some of these issues
Any advice to help with the basic dimension issue would be appreciated

I have and engineering background so modelling to size has always been my work flow
For the platform I have Turbocad which is similar to Autocad
Turbocad has 3DS export and Blender can import 3DS files
The process I am exploring is to support the Blender model with Turbocad models to trace
I have achieved the import but with a scale issue
This is an easy fix and I should have check that before
You get carried away with the model
Alphington Platform 01.jpg

The platform had many common components
The platform deck is timber and in panels from support leg to support leg
For textures smaller panels will work better
To save faces and deck will have 3 faces only to texture

The support legs
Can be modelled as a single item to reduce faces but will be difficult to wrap and texture
The other way is to leave the components separate and remove all unseen faces
This should be easier to texture

The wire in the handrail
6 or 8 faces with smooth modifier
All the wires are the same apart from being mirror image

The entire platform is mirror so can set up the blender model as a mirror
The concerns are the texture matches on the mirror components
Appreciate any advice to help complete the project

Cheers Ausc
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Re: Platform Halt advice

Postby AndiS » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:24 am

This is how I would do such a thing in Blender.
  • Create one leg and one panel, say to the right.
  • Texture that.
  • Apply Array Modifier to repeat it a given number of times (to the right).
  • Apply Modifier so it all becomes primary mesh.
  • Do some individual modifications like a bit of skewing and shrinking. Unfortunately, you need to do work twice here, once on the mesh and once on the texture.
  • Maybe apply an Array Modifier to the end element again, e.g., if there is a break and some 3 elements in the end are the same but different from the others. Apply modifier again.
  • Create the end post by deleting the extra panel.
  • Select them all and join/merge them into one mesh object.

If you still want to, you can mirror the merge object. Apply, then (in edit mode) take out the post of one of the two, where they are superimposed at the mirror axis. And merge again.

If you ever get carried away creating the mesh, postponing the nasty unwrapping job, like it happens so often, you can save yourself in your case if you utilise the simple geometry and do it in a very principled way:
  • Switch to orthogonal view (Numeric Pad 5), so you see the grid.
  • Switch between top, front, side views using NumPad 7,1,3 as needed.
  • Select parts that you want textured the same. E.g., all the front faces of the legs. Use the bounding box B for that.
  • Reset the UV map, then shape and position the rectangle in UV space as needed, always keeping all rectangles selected.
  • Now hide the selected faces of the mesh.
  • Repeat with some part of the rest that you can easily select as a series of equally textured faces, e.g., the panels.
  • Utilise the feature that toggles between only selecting view facing parts and selecting everything - I forgot the name of that.

Like I said, it is not so recommended. But by hiding everything you textured, you might find a way through the mess whereby you always see a group that can be selected together, a bit like Sudoku.
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Re: Platform Halt advice

Postby Auscgu » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:53 am

Thanks Andi
I am following you info in principle and found the TurboCad import is a bit of a waste of time
Can't say I did not try

So back to Blender and just learn how to use the tools
One thing I have been struggling with is an advanced measure align tool
My theory is Google is your best friend
So spent some time looking in google searching for answers
Found this cool addon
https://github.com/egtwobits/mesh-align ... tag/v0.4.0
You can download at bottom of this page
I used the zip but the py files looks the same and is what Blender installs
Do a manual install of the PY file and save settings
The tool appears as an new tab on the left hand panel (T)
Tab name is Mesh Align Plus
Now for some practice
Enjoy Ausc
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Re: Platform Halt advice

Postby AndiS » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:19 am

Looks like a mighty tool. There is so much to explore in the Blender universe, you could spend a whole life just with Blender alone ...

There is no wasted time. There is just inspiration from afar. All these other packages have two benefits:
1) When you find something easy to do there, find a way to achieve that in Blender (using Google, mostly).
2) If and only if they carry over the UV map (and lend themselves to creating it first), then they can be quite useful.

For such things like bespoke scenery which is made up of several simple things so that as a whole it is quite some work but the components are not exactly rocket science, you may consider this workflow:

1) Create useful parts like posts and panels, each for its own, in Blender or any other tool, complete with UV mapping and maybe some texture.
2) Import or load them into your Blender scene and arrange them using Array Modifier, Object Linking etc.
3) Create Texture Atlas (another thing to Google), which means you joint the UV maps so they don't overlap.
4) Join the meshes (after applying modifiers).

That way you can easily come up with custom platforms for a whole route just from a few parts. Of course, you can also derive them all from one model or you can keep the parts in one Blender file ready all the time. But over time things can get messy and you might want to reuse some part elsewhere. That is where organising a component library for yourself could provide productive.
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Re: Platform Halt advice

Postby sumitsingh » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:38 pm

You can also use Normal Maps to generate lifted words.
I have made several high poly wagons ( 0.1 million and above ) and baked them to low poly mesh.
I made a wagon with all rivets but used normal map in game for rivet effects and it saves a lot of memory.
Blender can be learned easily in a few days. I also learned basics from this video series - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY6KPrc4uMw&list=PLda3VoSoc_TR7X7wfblBGiRz-bvhKpGkS
Last edited by sumitsingh on Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Platform Halt advice

Postby AndiS » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:00 pm

sumitsingh wrote:Blender can be learned easily in a few days.

I would happily subscribe to the first four words. :lol:
As for the rest of your theory, I somehow failed. :roll:

Regarding the letters, I see this problem, caused by the difference of the cross-section of letters and rivets: You need to model the letters with trapezoid cross section, not rectangular as would be prototypical. Otherwise all the normals on the burnt normal map will the dead upright. Or so I guess.

At any rate, you will always see both sides of the letter, the near one and the one you would never see. These signs are seen from the sides quite often. Therefore my believe is that for LOD 1 it pays to have the letters stand off, if you manage to handle the modelling effort. For LOD 2, I would go for the flat texture and only show that when you are so far away that the sides of the letters occupy less than 1 pixel width on your (*) screen.

(*) Nerd information: According to some measurements I made long ago, the distance at which an object fills 1 pixel on the screen is:
800 * size in metres * screen width in K px
That means that on a screen that is but 1024 px wide, an object that is 1 m wide shrinks to 1 pixel if it is 800 m from the camera in RW.
On the same screen, 1 cm will become a pixel at a distance of 8 m. That means if your letters are 1 inch deep, then at 2.5*8 = 20 m viewing distance, the sides (if looked at from the most favourable direction to note them), are 1 pixel wide. At 40 m, they are half a pixel wide and definitely lost. Now if you say that 1 K displays are a thing of the past and everyone has a 2 k display (e.g., 1920 wide), multiply the distance by 2.

The net result is that anything that is an inch in size becomes invisible if looked at from 80 or 100 m away. The later figure is for a 2560 display. This is a very negative perspective, however. You can happily cut down these numbers if you take the blur into account that comes with anti-aliasing and similar stuff. Of course, it is impossible to predict what will be noted on whose screen. I just had to dump some figures, being unable to do anything reasonable at the moment, quite obviously. :o
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Re: Platform Halt advice

Postby sumitsingh » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:21 pm

I have a subscription to Udemy's Blender complete guide because I had been looking for some good tutorials on-line but everything was not correctly synchronised.
https://www.udemy.com/blendertutorial/ so I grasp those concepts a bit by watching videos & practice simultaneously on example files apart from that youtube channel.
TS is 32bit, can't take much load that's why those tricks of Ambient Occlusion, Normal Maps & LOD's are used.
Regarding the design of anything rectangle or circular, it depends upon designer experience and patience to test all permutation and combination.
Also LOD1 2 3 etc are very helpful concepts to prevent unnecessary CPU load.
Happy Route Building.
Thanks for NERD info, I had never seen such exact calculation you have done earlier.
I have a 1920x1080 resolution and things get blurred which are at distant specially sleepers.
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Re: Platform Halt advice

Postby Auscgu » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:39 am

Andi
That is exactly the workflow I am aiming for
To create components and assemble in a scene in blender
Blender allows multiple scenes so would be idea

What I have been working towards is the basic components for each section
The array modifier will make this easy
My logic is to start at the platform deck as everything is common from there on
The the array is all positive in position
Each ramp is a mirror so will have another go and get the deck panels common to platform and ramp
Just position and array
That way least number of basic components to make many
platforms

Andi if you have used this work flow can you give me more details
That would be great

Love the Nerd info but the brain not computing today
Unfortunately I am off work because of my memory headaches treating me for Reactive Stress
Some day I sit looking at the screen waiting for my password to come to mind
Other day the day starts great but goes down hill form there
Bonus is I am here and enjoying being busy and achieving things
Having this interest great

Sumitsingh
I have seen the Udmey and many other pay training programs but there is so much info out there that you don't need it
The thing is they take you in direction you dont need to go
I love Blender Guru series he makes learning fun
Love to see more of your work and the wagons sound really interesting
Just remember to pitch info at my level if you can
Old Fart working on being an old Croc LOL

Cheers Ausc
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Re: Platform Halt advice

Postby AndiS » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:11 pm

Andi if you have used this work flow can you give me more details

I did not do much more actually.

I use the layers a lot - this array of buttons that switch visibility of objects on and off. Remembering what you put where is a mess but they are handy when things are combined with each other. In your case, you could, e.g., have the station sign without letters in layer 1, then the name of each station in layers 2, 3, 4, ..., each name in its own layer, all in their final place. Then you switch on layer 1 + 2 to export the first name plate, layer 1 + 3 for the second and so one. The bonus is that you can still work on the plain board in layer 1 and any improvement there will carry over to all stations, if go again through the exporting of each.

I find it important to always consider the difference of "copy linked" and "full copy" of objects. The names might be a bit different depending on Blender version and tutorial you read.

The difference is that in the linked version, both object instances share the same mesh. So if you change the mesh, the improvement is instantly carried over to all the instances.

The down side of linked copies is that sometimes you need little differences. If you created the copy as linked, just select "make standalone" or something like that. Then it has its own mesh copied over and you can modify it without influencing other things.

When I say mesh, I actually mean "mesh, UV map, material etc.". Basically, if you need some difference, you cannot use the linked version. End of differentiation.


If you feel like chancing the artistic side of things, you can try to make the texture look not so plain. I mostly failed in that but I am not the persevering type of person. Blender has this spray can feature. You can spray on the texture and also on the 3D shape.

Most important thing: Do it so gentle that you feel that it is not really worth the effort. Then it will be just about right. If you think (looking at the Blender model) that the time you spend on it clearly shows on the model, then people will say it is overdone. Exporting the model into RW and looking at it from "usual perspectives" is important, whatever perspectives are considered usual.

The key problem is that when you work on something in Blender, it occupies all your mind and it is easy to spend too much time on details that are irrelevant while missing something else that spoils the overall impression.

RW has some handy syncing feature whereby you do not need to leave the editor to see the freshly re-exported shape in-game. I forgot all about it as I dropped the artist role pretty fast.

When you feel that the detail you added just look stupid to be repeated on each panel, there is a bag of tricks to fight this impression. The cheapest ones are:

1) Mirror the UV map of the panel for a random selection of panels.

2) Move the UV map for a copy of the panel to somewhere else on the UV map so you can have two different, independent textures on your panels. Again randomly assign some panels to version 2. Together with item (1), we get 4 different looks on the panels which should do for 10 or so instances of the panel at any given platform.

Both tricks together keep you clear from tileable textures. These are an interesting thing to learn, too, but somewhat headache-intensive.


You could try the curve modifier one day. It will be great for curved platforms and retention walls and anything else that is not dead straight. Basically, you create Bezier curve as one object. Then you bring it in with the array modifier if you want stuff repeated along the line. If you apply the curve modifier alone to an object, it gets distorted along the curve, which can be right for your case, too. Sorry I forgot the rest. Too many years since and no time to Google for the details.

Love the Nerd info but the brain not computing today

I tried to answer this question for myself, long ago: What is so small that I really should not bother modelling it?

The simple answer is: Forget modelling stuff that is S wide and when you just see it from D metres away:
S = 1 cm ... D = 40 m
S = 1 inch ... D = 100 m
S = 1 foot ... D = 1200 m

The above is the upper bond of relevance. The lower bond is maybe 1/3 or 1/4 or so of this distance. This is really hard to establish. It not only depends on the graphics settings and display size, but also on how much it stands out.

Leaning out far, I could postulate: Do model details that are S wide when they can be seen from D metres away:
S = 1 cm ... D = 10 m
S = 1 inch ... D = 25 m
S = 1 foot ... D = 300 m

I would be glad to receive feedback from anyone who bothers as I know that this is a very theoretical approach. I really developed this back then to find an answer to the question "how big should a pixel an the texture be on the 3D model". It is answered along the above lines.

My conclusion back then was: 1 px for 1 mm object surface seen from 1 m away.

3 px would be great on high-res displays but in other settings, even 1 px may be much. After all, 1 is a number you remember easily.

You can write the same rule as:
Pixels on texture = Object size in mm / viewing distance in m.
Multiply by 2 or 3 for important details and/or to be "future proof".

Final nerd note: All the above is based on the default setting of the camera in RW. You can change the field of view. But I simply assume that people will carry the cost themselves. In other words, if you switch on telescopic view to detect anomalies in mid-range scenery, I cannot help you.

Not so nerdy observation: Since people can fly around freely, the whole distance computation boils down to what you consider reasonable. But in my view, the track location (or the head-out view on the near side) should set the standard.

The dramatic impact on station textures that TSW's rambler mode has is something we will worry about in 2019.

Edit: Viewing distance is a divisor, not a multiplier.
Last edited by AndiS on Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Platform Halt advice

Postby sumitsingh » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:03 pm

I have seen the Udmey and many other pay training programs but there is so much info out there that you don't need it

Most of the information is quite good for a beginner who don't get carried away by advance topics.
I referred GAME ASSETS PACK.

Love to see more of your work and the wagons sound really interesting

Yes I am definitely making them as my first RailWorks Project, a METRE GAUGE line running through my home time dated back in 2000's I will be updating the thread as soon as other relevant things will pop up.

Just remember to pitch info at my level if you can Old Fart working on being an old Croc LOL

I was also a beginner some months ago, made a lot of mistakes in design and other stuffs..

We all start from Level 0.
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