A Worrying Development (BNSF)

[BigVern]

Hopefully self explanatory.

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread ... BNSF-issue

I've already visited and put my name on the petition, not least because one of my routes references Marias Pass. Apologies for the sweary, but IMHO it's bloody stupid that there's a load of BNSF stuff out there for other sims which can be used worldwide without restriction, but not for TS20xx. It was bad enough when the restriction was imposed on rolling stock items but I couldn't believe it when I read DTG have pulled the routes from sale, too. Jackson really needs to get on top of this and sort it out, failing that as I posted on TS.com re-work the routes to remove any reference to BNSF and reskin the rolling stock into some sort of generic DTG house livery or something. The irony is, possibly a large part of the content and maybe even the routes themselves probably weren't even made in the USA?

Thoughts please, as this is something potentially affecting anyone contemplating building a route and referencing DLC to get assets or textures? DTG need to make a stand otherwise next it might be UP, or CSX resulting in more content which can be sold in the US only.

It would also be nice to know exactly what BNSF reasoning or purpose behind these steps is.

Again apologies for rant mode on the normally peaceful home here, but it is a very pertinent issue for us as developers.

[JamesLit]

Good point, well made! The "sweary" I am sure we're all man enough to get over..... that one's just another day at the office so to speak, for me, anyway.

[Carinthia]

It is called brand protection. Any brand name being used in a commercial product needs permission. That's why the opening page of TS is littered with credits.

BNSF call the shots - but nobody has said they have flatly refused. It may simply be that their fee is slightly above what DG consider financially viable. Whatever, I'm sure there is a reason and that reason isn't for the purpose of stopping people playing games. There is a real business world out there, and a business decision will be behind this.

John

[BigVern]

An update to this posted today at TS:-

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread ... 2015/page2 Post No.19.

Seems like it could affect other entities who have used or use BNSF etc. logos on their products and there doesn't seem to be any differentiation between payware or freeware.

One assumes that items purchased from DTG while the licence was still valid will still be able to get hold of the owned content in the event of a reinstall or similar.

It's a crying shame that new users to the sim outside the US won't be able to enjoy Marias or Stevens Pass which are two of the better North American routes created for RW-TS, leaving aside asset re-use in personal projects.

One would hope DTG and their associates now plan to drop anything else to do with BNSF and its predecessor companies, not least because a commercial project isn't going to have much viability if it can only be sold in the US.

And what if, in the future BNSF were to buy out UP, CP or CSX - that would kill off even bigger part of the US market to the wider world.

Frankly rather disappointed this issue hasn't provoked a bit more discussion on here given the importance of the matter.

[AndiS]

Funny how countries differ. In Germany, there is a ruling stating that a car manufacturer (Opel in this case) only controls the brand as far as the real core product is concerned, because the idea behind branding is that no one can pass their car as an Opel car. When it comes to plastic toys, the Opel brand is irrelevant as no consumer will mistake the toy for the real thing. But model makers' brands do matter, of course. It can be that easy, if you like.

But you can also decide to go nuts. If the majority does that, you can only take shelter and watch the disaster strike.

For US rail fans living outside the US, you can only put your money on freeware creators producing models without logo, or focus on a different operator.

If you live in the US, you get the models at a premium, to fund the lawyers and administrators. Or you buy something else until they find out that the whole nonsense does not pay off any more. Too bad most people only believe it is the real thing if they find some stupid logo on it. Whether the details are right they cannot say. But if the logo is there, then it is what they wanted to buy. That is the only thing the money spinners can build on.

[cjbarnes5294]

I suspect that we will see most of the items pulled down come back again with all BNSF branding removed, which would be good for new players, although if it is to happen then I also suspect that us outside of the US would lose the branding as well in a "patch". It might be worth making a backup of the locos and branded scenery items if you're concerned about potentially losing the branding.

I do agree that it's a shame that this happened, and I'm sure that nobody is more frustrated about it than the staff at DTG themselves. They've had to remove what are probably quite popular addons from sale - lost revenue, and to bring them back to market will require someone's time and a fair dose of effort to make the changes required, and we all know that time is more money when it comes to commercial undertakings.

The reason I hadn't posted until now was because I don't think there's much that anyone here can do about it, to be honest - something like this just seems to be too big to me that DTG wouldn't have already explored all options to try and keep the branding available to everyone. Without wishing to over-dramatize the situation, it just seems like it would be too big a setback to have not done everything they could do to prevent it from happening.

That all said, I'm not really concerned about the situation (there's not much point getting worried about a train sim, I feel that life is too short). Closer to home, there are plenty of TOCs that seem unwilling to be represented by a simulation afterall, so the only difference really is that one country gets it and the rest don't. Moving forward, I think that the future will be that Dovetail will continue to produce any American route they want, and just provide us non-US folk with the orange and black unbranded stuff where BNSF are concerned, as was done with the recent Chicago route. As Andi in my opinion rightly points out, the branding and logos are fairly unimportant at the end of the day except for making screenshots, scenes and loco exteriors look a bit more true to life - the important bit like the locos, scenery assets, route etc: they will most likely all be of just the same good quality and usability as all previous DTG routes. Stay positive, chaps and chapesses.

Kind regards,
Chris

[BigVern]

Posted this on the N3V forum to get a wider view of the situation...

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthre ... sing-Issue

Interesting counterpoint in post #3 that BNSF are actually incorrect and there is no need for DTG to pull the stuff from worldwide sale. That would certainly explain why 3D Trainstuff are happily selling BNSF liveried items for Run 8 to a global market along with all the residual MSTS and Trainz stuff everywhere else. So if that's the case it comes down to DTG perhaps pushing to see what happens if they applied this argument.

[AndiS]

The point is that if BNSF chose to rule out the free use of their unprotected brand as part of their licence agreement, then you only got two options left:
1) Sell only to the US and whatever countries BNSF choose to permit.
2) Only sell to the rest of the countries, and make sure that you can show that you made your best viable effort to prevent use of your product in the US and other countries where the brand is protected.

I am sure it is legal to include a paragraph into any contract stating that you willingly forfeit your right to sell stuff freely somewhere for getting permission to sell it in the US in return. It is giving and taking, and the business partners decide whether their taking is worth their giving.

In the end, I guess that there are more buyers of US stuff in the US than outside. So DTG chose the option that earns more revenue, like any company will.