What were LHZ 40T Coal Hoppers?

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What were LHZ 40T Coal Hoppers?

Postby Rockdoc2174 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:49 pm

I'm reading an excellent book (Toton Engineman by John Henry Woolley ISBN 978-9927398-0-5) and on page 56 he writes "It was Wednesday June 13 1962 when I first fired for Driver Frank Winfield. We had signed on at 5.30 am for Willesden. The locomotive was a Stanier Class 8F 2-8-0 goods engine No 48319.

The train was nicknamed 'The Tin Trunks' - they were 40-ton hooper wagons code named 'LHZ'. They were part of a flow from the collieries at Mapperley to Stonebridge Park power station....."


Google throws up nothing with the code LHZ and there don't seem to be any photos of them in the book. Funnily enough, I was also given Marsden Rail 26 for my birthday and that has a couple of interludes taken at Ratcliffe on Soar and one of the trains consists of large hoppers I didn't recognise with a distinctive groove down the middle of the sides, which may be them.

Can anyone throw any light on his, please?

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Re: What were LHZ 40T Coal Hoppers?

Postby eyore » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:19 pm

Don't know if these are the same wagons but a similar question was asked over at rmweb. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17324#p269851
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Re: What were LHZ 40T Coal Hoppers?

Postby Rockdoc2174 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:06 pm

Thanks. I think they must be the same ones. LMS-built, too, which is a considerable surprise, given the general perception that all coal traffic was handled in unbraked, wooden-bodied wagons even after nationalisation.

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Re: What were LHZ 40T Coal Hoppers?

Postby Rockdoc2174 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:40 am

It was the combination of L.M.S. and Stonebridge Park that cracked it. Stonebridge Park was a power-station built by the railway company for its Euston to Watford service. Thirty of the hoppers were built by BRCW to a Crewe design in 1929 specifically for this traffic, lasting until the station closed in 1967. There are a number of good photos here: http://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-an ... 0t-hoppers and more info here: http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/in ... opic=13110. One source suggests the 30 wagons were used as three trains while another offers 2 x16-wagon trains and 8 spares, which perhaps makes a bit more sense, given the vital importance to the company of the power-station.

20T tare, 60T gross so a just under 1,000T express coal train. Only about 60 years before its time!

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Re: What were LHZ 40T Coal Hoppers?

Postby eyore » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:15 am

Just out of interest, Joe Whittaker had a similar issue with an iron ore version of these bogie hoppers.

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Re: What were LHZ 40T Coal Hoppers?

Postby Rockdoc2174 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:03 pm

There's a definite similarity but whether that's an improved version of the L.M.S. design or simply function dictating the form is a question I doubt anyone alive now can answer. With these, it seems very strange that they weren't air-braked, given both their specialised duties, meaning they would never run in other trains, and the presence of air to operate the doors.

B.R. were certainly aware in the fifties that air brakes were superior to the vacuum brake, not least because it acted more quickly on the entire train. In Toton Engineman there's a story of an experimental working using 16T wagons that had been fitted with vacuum brakes and a 'direct-acting valve' that was supposed to sense the drop in vacuum as it reached each wagon and immediately open to atmosphere, improving the braking development along the train. It was tested at Toton Yard and worked well so a trip was arranged. When the time came the driver was instructed to run a a certain speed and then to open his brake all the way. There was a slight pause and then the train slammed into the engine, smashing open the tender doors and covering the footplate in coal. The inspector in the guard's van was badly shaken and the guard broke his arm. Somehow it all stayed on the track and the party made its way - carefully - back to Toton. The experiment was quickly called off.

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Re: What were LHZ 40T Coal Hoppers?

Postby DominusEdwardius » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:22 pm

Apart from the ex caledonian railway locos no LMS engines had air brakes so fitting air brakes for the specific purpose of these wagons is a touch pointless considering that is all the use they would get. Added to that you have added complications, like fitting reservoirs, pipe work, proportional valves etc etc which adds to maintenance cost and gives even more things to go wrong :D For a slight increase in brake response times you have much more things to go wrong so it hardly seems worth it :)

That test was always going to go badly, if the test was done with an ex LMS engine then the engine is almost guaranteed to be fitted with a steam brake. I remember reading that the GWR did some tests on 15 coach trains with and without Direct Admission valves, without it took about 8 seconds for the first brake cylinder to fully apply and 30 seconds for the rear one, with DA valves it was 4 seconds for the first coach and 7 seconds for the rear.In that case the inevitable would happen when the driver just slams his brake on, the steam brake would just fully apply in about a second and with a loose coupled train as it inevitably was all the wagons would bunch up since the brake would still be applying. Can't help but think they asked for that one :D
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Re: What were LHZ 40T Coal Hoppers?

Postby Rockdoc2174 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:43 am

It was powered by two borrowed Britannias, Edward, but I don't see that made a significant difference under the circumstances, except to the level of embarrassment!

Btw, my maths was out earlier. If the L.M.S. Built 30 hoppers then there can't have been two 16-wagon trains, can there? :-( I had a look at the Marsden 26 DVD and it shows a Black 5 with 13 on, which would have left four spare wagons to keep this vital service running reliably.

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